Insurance

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orange machine
250cc Trail Rider
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:43 pm

Insurance

Postby orange machine » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:05 pm

HI
Anyone have any advice on insurance process I've been unfortunate in the last 3yrs to have 2bikes stolen from a locked garage with security which insurance have paid out .My current broker have said I can't continue with another bike as the insurers have paid out but still have 6mths remaing because of the prev claim .Does anyone know if this is common pratice .Conveniently they've quoted me 4x times what I previously paid before is there Anyone I can complain to .Any advice would be welcome my road bikes were untouched.

smokinrider
250cc Trail Rider
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:46 pm

Re: Insurance

Postby smokinrider » Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:19 pm

If you swap over immediately you usually can (but it's not a given).
As soon as a claims paid the policy is effectively over as you've used what you paid for. It is in the policy wording.

Once you've claimed especially twice for theft you'll be lucky to find as many insurers interested in you. Even though theft is not technically not your fault it is a fairly heafty claim against what you've paid them. Forget all the guff about I've paid in for years without a claim blah blah and all that, that some use as a moan. You pay to insure against loss for each year so it has no relevance how many claim free years you've had once you've had a few claims. Your insurer is down probably 10:1. They certainly won't offer any refund on what's left, and as (in their eyes) your a bad risk now, they won't want to risk another £4K by offering you cover for the remainder of the policy.



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orange machine
250cc Trail Rider
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:43 pm

Re: Insurance

Postby orange machine » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:16 am

Not really what I asked I was hoping a reply from someone with dealings of the industry.Yes you've got your opinion what I would've agreed with before my thefts it seems you get stung twice once by the thieves then by the legal thieves how many times have we heard your premium gone up 5 to 10 times the rate of inflation because they've had claims .I certainly have over the last 20years without any claim or incidents .
JUST A WARNING FOR ALL USING THIS SITE I'VE ONLY USED MY BIKES ON TRF MEETS I'M CONVINCED WE'RE BEING WATCHED SO BE CAREFUL YOUR NOT BEING FOLLOWED ON YOUR WAY BACK.

smokinrider
250cc Trail Rider
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:46 pm

Insurance

Postby smokinrider » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:10 pm

I think 10 years as a broker and 5 as a senior theft insurance claims investigator/negotiator give me a bit more than just an opinion.

20 years claims free unfortunately makes no difference once you have a claim. You paid into a pot and were paid out from it. You were covered for what you paid for and the policy automatically cancels following a total loss or theft claim. Some insurers waive this but not always. I know this isn't what you want to hear but it's in black and white in your policy document.

As for who to complain to, there is nothing to complain about, the company are not doing anything wrong.

Everything I stated is the bottom line I'm afraid. Have another claim and I doubt you'll find anyone who will cover you. Unfortunately theft claims have a real effect on your insuarability.

Back in the 90s for every £1 Norwich union collected on premiums for motorbike policies they paid out £1.50. Hence why they stopped their popular rider policies as it was sending them bankrupt.


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Last edited by smokinrider on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ShaunGASGAS300
350cc Veteran
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:13 pm

Re: Insurance

Postby ShaunGASGAS300 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:14 pm

Good old Aviva did the same thing when they went into the PI market a couple years ago, in for 12 months, made 100% loss and back out again by the end of the first year.

He is completely correct though, you can normally replace the vehicle following a claim if it is repairs, however, following a total loss, most policy state that the policy will end.

Unfortunately, you have had two bikes stolen from your locked garage, if they were from the shops or somewhere away from the home you might be able to argue it, however, two stolen already, I'm afraid it's more than likely there will be a third as it's probably the same people who have stolen both so far and they know you will replace the bike.

At the end of the day, the insurance has done exactly what you have paid for, you paid your premium, they have paid out for the bike. (Twice) I don't think you have anything to complain about, to be honest. It seems nowadays, insurers don't pay out, people complain, they do pay out, people still complain.

Lety's assume your bike was worth £4K. You probably paid £200 in insurance premium max (Considering you had 20 years claims free) So (Can't remember if you said they swapped the bike the first time or not) Let's look at the maths

£200 premium - (Assuming they swapped the bike on the same policy)
£8,000 claim

That gives a loss ratio of 4,000% (Claims paid/Premium collect)

£500 Premium (£200 for first policy, £300 for second)
£8,000 claim

Loss ratio of 1600%

Eitherway, the insurer has made such a massive loss on you, you should not be surprised that your premium is going through the roof. Insurance companies are business and are there to make a profit, there is no requirement for them to offer you insurance, it is up to you.

I would also read your next insurers questions carefully and answer yes if it reads something along the lines of "Have you ever had insurance canceled, refused or special terms applied" as you have.

ShaunGASGAS300
350cc Veteran
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:13 pm

Re: Insurance

Postby ShaunGASGAS300 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:33 pm

orange machine wrote:Not really what I asked I was hoping a reply from someone with dealings of the industry.Yes you've got your opinion what I would've agreed with before my thefts it seems you get stung twice once by the thieves then by the legal thieves how many times have we heard your premium gone up 5 to 10 times the rate of inflation because they've had claims .I certainly have over the last 20years without any claim or incidents .
JUST A WARNING FOR ALL USING THIS SITE I'VE ONLY USED MY BIKES ON TRF MEETS I'M CONVINCED WE'RE BEING WATCHED SO BE CAREFUL YOUR NOT BEING FOLLOWED ON YOUR WAY BACK.


Also, the big increase at the moment is the government increase Tax on insurance, it has gone from 6% - 12% in the last two years.
Ogden rate - Google it, it's cost insurers 7 Billion this year and the NHS 2 billion (Expected)

You call insurers Legal Thieves? YET they have just paid you for two bikes that have been stolen? How are the thieving from you exactly? What you are moaning about is the whole concept of insurance! Yes, if the insurer receives lots of claims, they put their prices up, that who pooling works, everyone pays into the pot to cover the claims fo the few. I'd also point out that motor insurance is one of, if not THE least profitable insurance lines going. As a broker we make the least money from motor because of who little insurers keep of it. I read some crazy stats a year or so ago, out of the £77,000,000 of claims paid out DAILY, around £27,000,000 comes from motor, the rest, house, business, travel, life, commercial ect. (This was from 2015, it would be even higher now)
https://www.abi.org.uk/news/news-articl ... er-before/

The other obviously reason your insurance has gone up over the years, is because everything is now more expensive, cars are more expensive,m labour is, parts are ect. How can you expect them to change you what they did 20 years ago, when those parts are now however many times more expensive now. (Just point out, if you want to complain about inflation rates and thing going up, go walk past estate agents and saw how the increasing costs for property compare to the increase in salary over the last 20 years.

Insurance in the UK is too cheap from a stats point, premiums should be higher and they soon will be, we have been in a soft market for too long now. Insurance never goes up 5-10X inflation! Inflation is 2-3% (Excluding property) When has you insurance ever gone up 10-20%? (That's the lower end of inflation) If it has, it's cause you haven't called them or looked around. The only people seeing those sort of rate increases at the moment are high-risk industries such as couriers and hauliers and even then if claims free the average is probably about 7-9% (And that increase is because of the Ogden Rate)

Rant Over! Stop moaning about insurance companies when they have done what you paid them for.

smokinrider
250cc Trail Rider
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:46 pm

Re: Insurance

Postby smokinrider » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:35 pm

And rest assured if you answer yes to that question NO insurer in the country will touch you.

That question is designed for policies cancelled due to fraud or misrepresentation etc. You haven't technically had a policy cancelled or terms imposed as the policy was cancelled due to the payment of a total loss claim as per the policy terms and conditions. Grey area so be careful.


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ShaunGASGAS300
350cc Veteran
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:13 pm

Re: Insurance

Postby ShaunGASGAS300 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:57 pm

smokinrider wrote:And rest assured if you answer yes to that question NO insurer in the country will touch you.

That question is designed for policies cancelled due to fraud or misrepresentation etc. You haven't technically had a policy cancelled or terms imposed as the policy was cancelled due to the payment of a total loss claim as per the policy terms and conditions. Grey area so be careful.


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Sorry, I was referring to the Insurance refused part. (Think I remember reading him saying that his current insurer has refused to reinstate/re-offer him a policy.)

Bue yes, very grey area!

smokinrider
250cc Trail Rider
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:46 pm

Re: Insurance

Postby smokinrider » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:11 pm

Well they haven't really refused, they've just executed the terms of the policy.

Either way from experience if you clicked yes to this on the quote screen when I was a broker, we could only find 1 insurer who'd quote and they were astronomical. Almost every insurer will refuse cover if you've had an insurer envoke cancellation or refused cover.


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smokinrider
250cc Trail Rider
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:46 pm

Re: Insurance

Postby smokinrider » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:52 pm

Well they haven't really refused, they've just executed the terms of the policy.

Either way from experience if you clicked yes to this on the quote screen when I was a broker, we could only find 1 insurer who'd quote and they were astronomical. Almost every insurer will refuse cover if you've had an insurer envoke cancellation or refused cover.


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orange machine
250cc Trail Rider
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:43 pm

Re: Insurance

Postby orange machine » Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:09 pm

Hi
Bikes were from 2 different address 5 miles apart as moved house .So not from same address also my point is why am I more of a risk for 3rd party as not had an accidents. I know of people in cars having several claims in one year for accidents each far more than my 2k claim .How many of us read tiny print in insurance jargon as mainly only have insurance as its a legal requirement I expected to be penalized a bit or having the theft element removed. but each year we get increases when not claimed some of us go looking for cheaper quotes as they say they've paid out for this at that.Just frustrating that I found a hoby doing laneing and its been taken away as the cost is too much for insurance.Maybe leave for 5yrs then try again as they normally ask if you've had any claims in the last 5yrs

smokinrider
250cc Trail Rider
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 7:46 pm

Re: Insurance

Postby smokinrider » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:51 pm

everyone reads the small print unless they want to be caught out. If you didn't then you can't claim to have misunderstood them.

It's about risk assessment, deep down you know that.
You're now a bad risk as you've had 2 theft claims(the worst claim you can have).
Doesn't matter what why where when, you've had 2 claims and they've paid out a lot more than you've paid in. So technically WE all are all paying for your claims in our premium rises.

If you had 2 car accidents the loadings would be different as 1)a car isn't a bike, 2) they'd be accidents not theft.

There is obviously a perceived view when assessing risk that bike ride fast. And we do! Stopping distances can therefore be longer and accident risk higher. Even if an accident is non fault there's no guaranteeing the other guy is insured so therefore insurers would lose out on a comp claim. They will also asses that as you've had 2 theft claims there may be an issue with your security arrangements and thefore attitude towards maintainence and riding standards. (Believe me this is how you asses risk. If you've made 2 claims statics say you're more likely to make another. That may be a theft or it may be a fire or an accident). It's all based on statistics. Maybe they think hmm. Maybe if you have 2 thefts it's because the engine blew up or you crashed with just TP cover so the bike going missing is a blessing, (It happens, trust me it was my job to sniff these out and catch the scamming thieving fraudsters, whose attitude of, it's only an insurance company so it's fair game, which is why we all pay too much for insurance)

As it's little more effort these days to send a car to an approved repair in so much as admin goes there ain't a lot of insurers who discount huge amounts for tpft cover. And these days practically no one does tp only cover or allows riding other bikes for sub 600cc policies. And few will offer pillion cover, as regardless of being comp or tpft they be shelling out for injury claims as pillions often fare the worst.

Sorry if this all sounds a bit blunt but there's no point in sugar coating the facts.
Truth is and I've had to explain this to customers (who say, what's the point of having the cover, when there £500 car got stolen with £150 theft xs and loss of 40%ncd on a £400 policy, ie claim £350 and you'll be paying 800 next year, it ain't worth it, do the maths not to mention policy loadings and insurers who won't cover anyone whose had a claim ever. but why do I have insurance, bang head at the wall and explain the figures again
!!)
That if you're claim is only 2k for 2 bikes so that's a grand a bike. After the first theft you'd have been better off not making the second claim for a grand and sucking it up, as you're now buggered and paying in more than the claim was worth.








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